Europe leaps ahead on physics frontier

And this is after 50 years of the $100 trillion "War on Taxpayers", otherwise known as the public education system.....

American has the best universities system in the world, and it is public education.

The brightest minds from America's public schools go work on Wall Street or large Law firms. America will have to pay scientists and engineers more if they want the best; otherwise we'll have to continue to import engineers and scientists.

We'll bounce back once we boot Bush.

Would that be the best minds who just screwed up the credit markets?

Public Education in this country is a joke, it's become nothing more than daycare. Our children are not challenged at all in school anymore, we teach to the level of the slowest student so no one is left behind. And what about parents?, all they want to do is complain about how their kid can't keep up, and they wonder why as they tell them to go do their homework as the kid plays video games for 8 hours a day!. We have become a nation of do nothings, I equate us with ancient Rome, fat and lazy, and we all know what that leads to! If you ask me, public schools should be a branch of the military, uniforms and all. They would accelerate the smart ones and teach the dumb ones how to make it the world instead of giving them false hope.

The scientists and engineers were educated in US universities Also The first large proton synchrotron was the Cosmotron at Brookhaven National Laboratory also The LHC Computing Grid is also American technology. They could not have done it with out the US.
I dont see where we are falling behind we have lead the way.

Oh, I don't know about bouncing back after Boosh. How about "noun, verb and POW" McCain, and his lipstick Palin?

Umm...the supercollider that we were building in the U.S. (below the SMU campus in Dallas) was scrapped during the Clinton administration. I don't think you can really blame Bush on that one. (Perhaps the Republican Congress in the 90's, but I don't recall the details of why they stopped. I don't believe it was a congressional issue.)

Besides, anyone who has a Ph.D. in physics was in school long before Bush even thought about running for office. So our current lack of achievement in physics cannot be Bushes fault--if it is even possible that a president can have much effect on such a thing.

I'm not a big Bush fan, but constantly blaming every thing that goes wrong--or that someone perceives to be wrong--on Bush shows how idiotic and desperately partisan you are. Perhaps if more people like you tried harder in school instead of spending all your time writing ridiculous comments on internet news articles, we would have better scientific achievement in this country.

That being said, there are generally two culprits when it comes to restricting scientific gains in this country--and it is bipartisan--1) regulations put forth by animal rights advocates and environmentalists, and 2) the budget hawks who don't believe we should invest in anything. At the university level, however, it is more often the case that the universities are afraid of bad publicity from the left when people protest the research they are doing. I have personally seen three major laboratories thrown out the window at two different universities that I have graduated from because of protests from the left--(and that does not include the SMU supercollider.)

Is this discussion about the LHC?

We had the superconducting supercollider partially built then filled in the hole because people were too cheap to want to pay for it. So the Europeans did it instead. That's what you get when you are too cheap to try to advance science and just want to only use tax money to sit around and powder our butts.

AMEN.

All hail George Bush.

thoroughlyentertained....The SST was not in Dallas under SMU's campus, it was in Waxahachie, about 60 miles south.

Nice one, FairfaxBrian :-D

I couldn't agree more...as long as Obama takes his place. With McCain/Palin in the White House (especially Palin, who seems to have built her whole career on wrong-headedness), science, intellectual curiosity and education don't stand a chance!

superlogi. it doesn't matter that there was more creationism taught 50 years ago. creationism hasn't been a controlled variable over the past 50 years - there could have been other factors 50 years ago that don't exist now that compensated for it. 50 years ago or now, it doesn't matter. Creationism being taught besides evolution is retarded and just goes to show how the stupidity of the hick places in rural alabama or whatever is screwing up the entire country's education.

The SSC was canceled in 1993 - Democratic president, Democratic Congress. In his defense, Clinton did make a half-hearted attempt to save it late in the game.

I've read a couple of articles about the project and its cancellation - the overwhelming impression I got was that theoretical physicists seldom make good project managers.

A great fringe benefit of the supercollider is that nobody is discussing the question of whether the earth is 6000 years-old, created by god in 6 days.

ALL articles seriously discussing the LHC are talking about the conditions found in the newly born universe more than 15 billion years ago. The debunking of fundamentalist mythology in the mainstream press is one of the most important functions of science. Hopefully there is another early hominid found in the next few years.

I thought this was a joint project with the US contributing hundreds of millions of dollars. I disagree that Europe is leaping ahead.

What a load of hooey. 'rithmatic' isn't stressed either. The college education system that instructs our teachers feel it is far more important to push their leftist agenda in our schools, the pc correctness, the US is the root of all problems in the world, and sex education than teach Maths/Sciences. That's hardly the fault of organized religion.

Lets also not forget that the unions fight to keep the marginal/totally lousy teachers employed in jobs they cannot perform. Scratch another potential 30 knowledge workers from our pool per class per lousy teacher per year.

Last but not least, we have the parents of the general public that take little interest in their children's education as they are self-absorbed with their tv, hobbies, sports, etc. For the few that take the time to play catch with their kids each day, if they'd devote that time to the more important task of school, maybe education would meet the goals it must meet.

The US will continue to fall behind science, engineering and technology is because of GREED and LAZINESS. Secondly, Don't blame the attack of the" Three R". Instead, you should look at what we are NOW teaching at our schools and colleges: evolutionism and liberalism.

superlogi has it write. This county isn't as religious as we were at our peak of science on the world stage. Its because we starting getting away from core values & beliefs. I don't mean get back to praying in schools, but to get back to the "family". Parents parenting their children, teachers letting a child know they've gotten out of line and punishing them for it. Preach on superlogi, I feel your pain

Sigh...you people are all crazy. One side thinks it's all the conservative's fault...the other claims it's all the liberals fault. Has it ever occurred to any of you that it might have nothing to do with which side of the political spectrum a person falls into? Both sides want what they think is best for the country. It isn't like one of the political parties gets together and says, "Okay guys, how are we going to destroy America today!". Both sides are trying to fix things. We have more in common than anyone seems to be willing to admit. Yeah, we disagree on the specifics, but I don't understand why this disagreement means that one side needs to become the devil and the other the saint.

Why don't we just admit the truth, both sides have some good points depending on the issue. We'd be better off with some sort of synthesis, rather than this constant bickering that drives me up the wall.

As for Superlogi's sure fire way to fix the school system...I don't know...it sounds to me like you just want to ignore the problem when you say something like "including suspension and expulsion of trouble making kids". How does this help those 'trouble making kids' to become productive members of society? It doesn't...it just kicks them into the cracks and says, "Sorry, you're not keeping up...we don't need you." In school I WAS one of those kids. I don't know what would have happened to me if the school system had just said, screw you and tossed me out on my rear end. I certainly don't think I would have gone on to go to college and get my bachelors degree.

Its not how much money we spend I think the point is that we as a nation have been focused on so called "culture wars" as evidenced by this discussion without providing proper emphasis and respect for the benefits that science brings to a society from the simple science behind treating waste water to the cutting edge physics of green energy technology. Please leave the "if only you raised your kids like I do" dialogue out of this discussion and try to work together as Americans to solve what is clearly a problem facing our nation. After all even though we are Republicans and Democrats, Liberals and Conservatives, Evangelicals and Atheists, we are first and foremost Americans. And Americans don't settle for being second best at anything. It used to be we were willing to put aside our differences and come together for the common good. Its sad and pathetic that we can't even do that when discussing the most pressing issue facing our children and grandchildren in the next 50 years, ensuring our schools and technology remain the best in the world. Try developing the ability to see beyond yourself and your own ideology long enough to see the other person's perspective so you can find common ground and common goals. It really isn't that hard if you understand that its not all about you but about our country and its future. I hope we are able to do this soon or it really won't matter what side of the fence you're on, we will all fail together and it we be because we forget to be American's first.

There's a difference between being religious and being a NEOCON.

These people want to dictate what everyone else can do and think.

If McCain / Palin are elected, the world as we know it will cease to

exist and that's exactly what they want - to cause Armageddon.

They are so egotistical that they believe they are closer to God if

they destroy billions of people. Read their manefesto and their call

for a Pearl Harbor type event to help their cause.... 9 / 11.

VOTE ABSENTEE !

I've heard of the spending per capita argument before and sad as it is, it cannot be used as an regional comparison in itself. You give $5 to a student in Asia and you can give them more equipment, uniforms, food, and teachers than in the US. A teacher in New York gets paid 5-10K more than Montana, is that teacher better off to give students what they need?

You say to let the schools and students fail and your also asking higher costs to start up a new school. Let the private sector pick up where the public sector fails. Let's see if that works for China's poor or see if the prison costs decrease and the community benefits from that. A girl in India committed suicide because she thought the LHC was a doomsday device. Maybe we should just say "Hey, it's just one life. Do you know how much it would cost to save her and educate the society? Leave it to the family and the neighborhood to fix that problem. If the family fails the children, that only ruins themselves."

Lorax, absolutely brilliant post. I concur completely. I am elderly and have witnessed a decline in the quality and thinking of most Americans as opposed to when I was young. Way back then, my parents, products of the great Depression and even hunger, were utterly Einsteins compared to the average American of today.

Way back then, my parents thought the religious fanatics, who were in the way low minority then, were complete brainwashed idiots. Today, because they believe in breeding and the more and more at the expense of quality, the religious wackos & their populations have increased disproportionately. It is like USA has slid all the way back to several centuries ago concerning worldview, cognizance, science, beliefs and priorities.

Even my son is conscious of this pervasive and growing dumbing down of the average American. Today, Europe's main objectives and top concerns are environmental, global warming, and securing world peace. Americans main goals are money and sacrificing Earth and their children's lives for beliefs and values that reflect centuries old, caveman mentality.

Instead of moving forward, this nation is sliding backwards at a warped speed! As a child, my next door neighbors were high school teachers and a nuclear physicist. Today, my hometown looks like Tiajuana and is about as aware as Mexico's poorest, least educated and least conscious of any issue other than breeding and consuming.

We cannot have quality and quantity. While Europe will lead the world in technology and science, like stem cell technology and medicine and most importantly, grab the intellectual tools and the science to save Earth before it is too late, America and her leaders will be singing, "Praise Jesus". "Pray for another pipeline."

Gosh, I wish I could converse with my thinking parents, once again.

you are correct. "creationism" taught beside evolution? no wonder science in this country is going down the toilet.

Religious beliefs, education, and lack of parenting aren't to blame for the current situation. It's economics and history.

CERN didn't just start up overnight. For decades, they and Fermilab in the US have been at the forefront of particle physics research, each trading discoveries back and forth, sharing expertise and knowledge. When SCSC funding was cut in 1994 (on whose watch?), they were able to step up. In spite of MSNBC's hyperbole, there is a lot more cooperation than there is competition. It's also becoming a fact that for some scientific experiments, the cost of doing them is more than any one nation can afford.

The other aspect is jobs. Adam Yurkewicz, one of the subjects in the article, says it himself. He would like to come back to the US, but would probably have difficulty finding a job. Several other fields of research, astrophysics and astronomy come to mind, suffer as well. There just aren't enough jobs to employ everyone who would choose a career, not just in those fields, but in doing highly specialized research in those fields.

People aren't as dumb as you think. What person would spend four years on a bachelor's degree, another three on a master's, and another four to six years on a Ph.D and post-doctoral fellowship only to stand in an unemployment line? You would need to either be pretty dumb or pretty dedicated and willing to gamble your future on the future.

Back in the '60's when the space program was in full swing, there was both the inspiration to encourage study of science and math and the certainty that if you did, you could probably find a job doing it. Some high-tech companies are trying to reach out to encourage students and spark some interest at the grade school level in math and science and try to get the word out that there are jobs out there. Today, in all honesty, there just isn't much inspiration out there, and that's too bad.

I think the real reason we have taken a step back since 50 years ago is our complaisant attitude towards big science.

50 Years ago, we were involved in the cold war with Russia and our competition with them is what sparked a lot of our innovation. Our politicians, our scientists, and our citizens were all on the same wavelength in that they felt our very survival depended on staying ahead of the Russians.

Now, we have been the technology giant for many years, Russia is not as scary any more (though that might change soon), and now we have all gotten fat and lazy. Any time scientists, particularly those in fields that aren't directly applicable to everyday consumerism and military technology, ask for funding, congress wants to ask "how am I going to directly benefit from this?" In a lot of instances, everyday citizens don't benefit from it.

Ordinary citizens didn't directly and immediately benefit from Galileo's discovery about the nature of our solar system but this helped advance the human race immensely.

As a scientists pointed out in an earlier LHC article, all scientists had to do back in the day was mention Russia and congress threw money at them. These days, it is not the case.

The attitudes expressed on the Newsvine boards about how much of a waste of money the LHC was is a testament to that prevailing attitude in the US.

Super, No, the issue is not religion. The issue is and always has been, level of consciousness, the ability to see and an awareness within the bigger picture, and the comprehension of the big picture that is often obscured by flawed and unreasoning societal voices that are impacted by worldview and brainwashing. This alone, is the main reasoning behind America's dumbing down. I see it everywhere, not just in the religious right. However, I am totally cognizant of what my parents saw and thought.

Most Americans' level of intellect resides in the center of the bell curve of human intelligent. As USA is a democracy, the majority rules the societal voices, thoughts, decisions, beliefs and worldview, which all of the preceding are dictated by the average intellect, the average IQ's. The American voice and worldview are dictated by average minds; they are the majority. Conversely, the highly gifted are in the way minority, with IQ's on a line no wider than a sewing thread. Inherently, giftedness is intrinsically, a vastly higher level of consciousness and awareness, an ability to see and hear beyond all the verbal garbage, i.e., societal voices and brainwashing, a sensitivity and an awareness lost to the masses. And, a greater and deeper ability to use logic and reasoning.

In my opinion, when this nation's focus is on quantity, it loses quality -- in all aspects, quality of life, which I have eye-witnessed decline everywhere, quality of education, etc. Ask me if my hometown and America are better, more livable, more inspiring, more joy filled, more beautiful than it was in my youth. It is comparable to living in East L.A. to growing up in Paradise. I like that old tune about paving Paradise and putting up a parking lot. What's to love about America these days, the corner Macburger joint, the video store, the shopping mall, that car... Where has childhood gone -- to plastic and video games and computer monitors...What's inspirational and beautiful and profound and meaningful...when it is all the same... You've seen one burger joint, you've seen them all!

This is reflective of America's depth and profundity -- a world of plastic and plaster and concrete and very "little but empty boxes".

Welcome to Corporate America, a place where only those with the best business skills and advertising ability get to be number, not the most efficient or most innovative. I use Virtual PC so I can switch between Ubuntu and Vista

We're Number #1!!!
We're Number #1!!!
We're Nu...

Well, technically, from what I heard the black hole would fall to the center of the earth and start swallowing everything from there so...uh...yeah, everyone would pretty much be finished off at the same time.

The way i figure is they will create a black hole on one side of the Earth and on the other they will get the super-heated plasma self regenerating 600million degree sun power plant going so they will cancel each other out.

"Quite sad, and as a parent I am limited on how I can handle the issues without being labeled abusive."

Seriously, did you just say that? Surely my eyes must be deceiving me, but I could almost swear that you're implying the only way you can think of deal with the issue would be to beat your kids. That sort of thinking is the problem if you ask me. I like how you talk about your kids as being your "offspring". Dude, they're not just some alien parasites--these are your KIDS. Your children.

In my experience (referring to my own relationship with my parents) children are a reflection of their parents. If they've got this "It's all about me" syndrome...they probably got it from you. What sort of abuse do you imagine is going to teach them that the world isn't all about them? If you really wanted to impart this message maybe you could have from a young age taught them about the value of helping others, and then--oh, I don't know--maybe backed it up with actual actions. Like volunteering to help around the community and making sure to keep your kids involved in the process.

Sigh...never mind...

Yeah you did hear it, no I won't "beat" my kids you ignorant ass, but I can't even swat their butt in my state without Children services being called out. Good God, my son was playing in my front yard with other children, some years ago, my yard has a quaint little white picket fence, so children can't just run into the street, and a neighbor called Childrens Protective Services and told them that we weren't taking care of our children. Thankfully we had a video security system installed so we could see all parts of yard. Nice to have people with badges knocking on your door with other folks that have notepads accusing you of abusive behavior. Kids at the high school in our town have accused their parents of Mental abuse as in "My Parents Yell at Me All The Time". The other parent of my children that tells the children,"Oh its' ok you don't have to do anything you don,t want to do", has pretty truncated any authority short of corporal punishment that I have, and I won't go there. Oh and by the way I do frickin volunteer, it was the way I was raised. Salvation Army, Donate time and materials to other organizations. The local Head Start and a program called Big and Little buddies. So until you walk in MY Shoes keep your ignorant comments about me to yourself. Oh and Dude, I don't know how you were raised, Dude is about the rudest way I think I could address someone. Dude. So you and your liberal left can take your sorry attitudes and policies and disrespect and well I think you can figure out what to do with them.

Jim Hayes said it all very short and sweet. I'm so tired of all the religious interference and I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned religion needs to back out of the spot like and be humble as supposedly they are taught.

-Hank

Jim, I gotta disagree. It appears the majority of Americans are less conscious and evolved than even Taliban! It is surreal that this nation voted for a man of character, consciousness and intellect like Duhhhbya!

This individual, alone, has dumb-downed America and her role and image globally, setting this nation backwards in time by, at least, several centuries. In reality, this nation has beome the joke and comedic routines for Europeans, who view Americans as cross hugging, mass murdering, war-worshipping scum, the lowest of the low, reflected in my posting name, i.e., human garbage.

All you have to do is look at the bounce and reception of the McCain/Palin ticket to realize the one thing europe has on the U.S.A. is frankly intelligence. The GOP maligns anything to do with "intellect" and the pathetic thing is it works with the current american electorate. They paint anyone with an education or that fails to speak mainly in three syllable words as "liberal elitists", to thunderous applauses. And what we get is war mongers, who syphon funding from the NIH to fund their ill concieved battles for nothing. To put this is perspective the NIH's operating budget last year was 28.5 billion dollars, 15.1 billion of which is used to fund grants. The war in Iraq cost in excess of 120 billion. America needs to wake up quickly or all your "liberal elitists" will be moving to europe leaving you without a major source of innovation needed to reinvigorate the flatlining economy.

TooLogical, your logic is my logic. Totally agree with your thinking. By the way, I am a gifted lady. I pride myself on not being, just another American brainwashed drone.

You could of course spin your argument another way, Superlogi.... If professors, Doctors and researchers are supposedly the upper echelon of the population in terms of intellect, isn't strange that so many of them lean so strongly to the left? Perhaps they know something that the rest of the population doesn't? Maybe mainstream American politics and values are lagging behind... Is there anything wrong with social justice?

Another thing to think about would be just exactly what do the "leftist" professors stand to gain? What exactly is the "Leftist Agenda"? If helping people, finding peace, and saving the planet are wrong, I don't want to be Right!

That crazy liberal higher education system brought us to the pinnacle of our military, scientific and economic greatness. Our educational standing has been on the downswing since the Reagan 80s when we were taught that it was OK not to hate poverty but the poor.The Federal loans , grants and subsidies which moved the motivated poor to the middle class and middle to upper middle had the plug pulled on them and the only improvement to grant and loan availability came in the second Clinton Administration. The Federal dollars that took us to the moon and developed technologies from cellular to microchip . While funding every corrupted financial institution and oil producer, successive Republican Administrations have defunded higher education and cut funding to programs such as head start and pre K education. Primary and Secondary Schools must teach to test not teach to educate in order to retain funding. Funds are diverted to idiocies like abstinence Education while health and Science programs are cut. Bring in an abstinence program and get rid of the Science Fair. Have your US Senator fighting to teach Intelligent design in the 21st century like Rick Santorum did. This is not America it is a bad post apocalyptic novel. JKHayes

Right on, PaleBlue Dot. I concur. America's professors have always been real lefties. Wow, what wisdom.

Loved, loved

"If helping people, finding peace and saving the planet are wrong, I don't want to be right".

If you are right, I want to be right with you figuratively and literally because, you are RIGHT!

You could of course spin your argument another way, Superlogi.... If professors, Doctors and researchers are supposedly the upper echelon of the population in terms of intellect, isn't strange that so many of them lean so strongly to the left?

The funny thing about that argument, is from what I've seen, the only people that are liberal on college campuses in this area, are the same people blowing off college and going for worthless Liberal Studies Majors and majors like Art, something that won't do much good after college. I attend an engineering school that is predominately Moderate/Conservative, I'm in the middle of the two, Moderate that leans right. Almost everybody I've met that's a scientist/engineer in the working world, they're also moderate-conservative in their views, so what's that say?

I am often called liberal elitist ... and I'm proud of it, thank you very much! I'm glad I didn't waste my college education.

Truth is truth but it is not science.

Science (and the Scientific Method) is based on observable phenomena. Creationism is not observable phenomena and neither is whatever religious/humanist set of BELIEFS people may happen to subscribe in their lives. Creationism is pushed as an alternative to the Theory of Evolution based on the "premise" that the theory is not proven fact. Well, it IS a theory but at least it has observable facts and until we have better facts it is the best we have. Creationism on the other hand is based on BELIEFS and therefore cannot be compared to evolution (apples to oranges).

The problem is that when creationism is taught in schools it is equated to evolution and we leave the kids to decide for themselves which one is correct (like a teenager can answer the meaning of life). The majority of teenagers in the UA are only interested in celebrities and looks, they barely know where their noses are and we are asking them to decide what truth is and what is science? Please, don't make me laugh!

And don't get me started with the new math... all I have to say about that is that Newton and Galileo are spinning like tops in their graves.

The problem in this country is that conservatives and liberals alike want to push their agendas by controlling the kind of information taught in our schools. What they should be teaching is how to THINK!

I realize not everyone can be a scientist; someone has to sell me food at the store (there is nothing wrong with that). The problem is that science has been made to look like a monster or as an attempt to answer questions that falls short and becomes a guess. On the other hand celebrity has been made the most desirable thing so why should kids spend the time studying and learning when it is better to be rich and famous?

Science is what it is, the accumulation of knowledge. Unfortunately we don't appreciate the pursuit of knowledge even thou we should because humanity has NOT completed the accumulation of all knowledge. A fact that was best described by one of the most brilliant minds so far (and far ahead of his time):

"One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates

Evolution is not a theory. It is a Theory. Like the Theory of gravity, or Einstien's Theory of relativity. When something is a theory it means it is un tested, and unproven. When you you see the word "theory" in a science paper about evolution it will be "Theory" of evolution. Evolution is fact, or as much a fact as anything in all of science. When you have a random idea=theory. When an idea has been tested over and over thousands of times by different fields of science and verified by each other independently then you get that capitol T.

Funny, a lot of scientists don't believe that mankind is the cause of global warming, and whether it is a short term trend or the catastrophe pitched by others, or if it can be significantly influenced. The IPCC is a group of bureaucrats, not scientists, from which the media (and public opinion) derives it's information. We've only had good clean data for analysis for a relatively short time and any scientist will tell you that extrapolating 'facts' backwards in time to make up for missing data is not the same as accurate observations.

Scientific method is drafting a hypothesis and arriving at conclusions, not vice versa. I'm afraid that good science went out the window when the scientists started chasing the global warming money train.

sd: You appear to have an open mind. If you are interested in Earth issues, please investigate and research the science of ecology. If there is any credibility to this science, this Earth is in dire trouble.

The gravest problem facing Earth and mankind is, deforestation of Earth's ecosystems and a planet drowning under the weight of more and more human hordes slathering and burying the living, physical body of Earth with hot, hot concrete, bricks, freeways, cars, houses, apartments and cities, all dead planet -- as life-gifting as the face of Mars.

Mankind is alive and breathing oxygen because of ecosystems' collective services. Talk about a real, eye-opener!

I think you're missing the point here. It's Americans moving and living in Europe, not paying American taxes, some even choosing to emigrate to Europe, that is at issue. The US is being left behind, even by it's own. No since sticking around when the ship is sinking all around you. If the majority of the people of this country prefer rednecks running the country, then it gets just was it deserves; abandoned.

Wow, Chris. What an excellent post and superlative reasoning! You hit the nail on the head, so to speak!

It was canceled by congress because people were talking about it ending the world and opening the gateway to hell. It was not because of some "collaborative" thing to save money. Don't you remember the hysteria?

Where's the profit in the space program, astronomy, etc.?

You must have checked a long time back. Check again, and move on. Don't sit on the WW2 perch forever, the world has progressed beyond that.
Regarding the WW2 in *Europe*, America came in when Japan made an offer she couldn't refuse. Prior to that, America sat on its hands. Also, let's not forget the contribution of the Brits and Russians - not every sacrifice was made by America. Anyway, nobody cares. Europe and Asia will make progress in science and math, we will simply relive our glory days.

Did you bother to actually read the article or did you just skip that part so you could simply start throwing the same old rhetoric around? Read the article.

America became a second rate country in the 60 years between when we were actually doing some good and today.

And arguably the most respectful thing a person in our free country can do is "spout off at the mouth" about the degradation of our society. It's certainly the most patriotic. Personally, if someone respects me, I would hope that they would call me on doing things not worthy of respect. For the country that means speaking out against the mindless attack politics, the failure of the education system, and the oppression of individual thought and expression by that oh-so-popular opiate of the masses, religion.

I have nothing against spiritual (religious) people, but I do have a problem with their fragile sensibilities dictating non-religious, or public, areas of life.

Peace

Yes you are becoming a 3rd world country..

LMAO as well.

I agree Phud

well said